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Monday, July 16, 2007

Shef: The Strength to Speak Out

Some say that for top athletes, the bottom line is the pay check. The million dollar athlete is more concerned with his mansion, fleet of cars, jewelry and all the other accoutrements of the jet setting life style that fame and fortune can bring.

Love of the game and an enlightened perspective on the world they live in are lost.

One athlete that deserves applause and respect for having the courage and integrity to place his own need for justice and fairness above the dollar signs is Gary Sheffield.

Shef has long taken heat for being outspoken. For telling it like it is. For having the compunction to put realness ahead of a pay check. His allegiance to self truth has cost him dearly. Management at many of his employers have had it out for him. Fans only get the "media's" reformed opinion of what he says. The context of his statements is reduced to sound bites. He is portrayed as angry and disagreeable.

The angry Negro. Unappreciative of all he has been "given".

Well, we are here to tell you. Shef is painted as such in an effort to marginalize the truths that he habitually unveils. Shef is portrayed as the bitter, angry Negro by MLB and the media in an effort to get the public to turn their collective backs on him and not listen to what he has to say.

Angry and disagreeable? Unappreciative of what he has been "given"? How about serious and contemplative. And so grateful for his blessings his hard work has led to that he feels the need to try to bring truth to baseball to make things better for the next generation. How about that?

Now, in an effort to bring to light the inner demons of the Yankee clubhouse and possibly lead to healing for the individuals that have been disrespected and abused over the years, Shef has said things that people simple don't want to hear. It isn't even about believing what he says. No one is questioning the veracity of his perspective. Essentially, the response is "oh, it's that angry Sheffield, tell him to quite down."

Thankfully, Sheffield has reached a status in the game that he can't be silenced. The truth can't be muted by disingenuous attempts to deflect his unquestionably accurate perspective of his take on events.

"Black players had an issue with Joe Torre," Sheffield said in the interview with HBO. "They weren't treated like everybody else. Even I got called out in a couple of meetings that I thought was unfair."

This is inarguable. Every word is completely true.

Sheffield is a Negro player. If he and another Negro player had a problem with Torre, then it is completely reasonable for Shef to say that Negro players had an issue with Torre. If Shef felt that Torre treated him unfairly, then Torre did.

This isn't about Joe Torre. This isn't about racism. Shef even said he didn't think Torre was racist. So those in the media trying to continue this abhorrent depiction of Shef as the angry Negro casually calling everyone a racist are simply wrong.

This is about the need for baseball to exam the way it treats Negro players. It is about the need for baseball to understand that it is not the intention of the action, but the perception of the action that matters. Did Torre willfully intend to slight Shef? Did he intend to treat Shef differently? Did he even actually treat Shef differently? Probably not. But that doesn't matter.

Shef felt as a Negro he was treated differently. That is indisputable. You can't argue how Shef felt. You can't say, "no, Shef, you don't feel as if Torre treats Negroes differently." And that is all that matters.

"When you're hearing from your manager that they should have gotten Vladimir Guerrero, that's disrespectful, but nobody ever came to my defense and said it was."

Imagine. You show up to a new employer, and all your supervisor does is talk about the guy he'd rather have in your place. That is the type of thing that could cause a sensitive man like Sheffield to get down on himself and question his self worth. That is the type of thing that can break a man. And, when the rest of the organization does nothing to defend the new employee/player, it leave that individual feeling like he is alone in this new world. And, throw in the final factor: The manager and the organization are white. The individual being disrespected and shown no support is Negro. What conclusion can one come to other than Negroes are treated differently? There is no other logical conclusion.

"I had a lot of one-on-ones with Joe," he continued. "I don't just jump to a conclusion on every issue. When he called me out in meetings, I tried to take a positive out of it. I talked it over with my wife and she said maybe he was doing it to make me an example for everyone else. I told her she might be right.
"But when it hit the papers, that he called me out in meetings, then it's a different ballgame and that's what happened."


And that is when it became clear to Shef that this wasn't simply about trying to improve the team. It was about disrespecting Sheffield and treating him, as a Negro, differently.

Sheffield has taken a lot of heat over the years for his willingness to quickly leave a team and move on to the next high paying situation. Has anyone every considered that it isn't about the money. That it is completely about respect and Sheffield's continuous search for a situation in which he won't perceive that he is being treated differently because he is a Negro? That, his short stays and constantly changing teams is a quest for acceptance and a continued fight for the acceptance of Negro players in MLB?

We are so quick to laugh and belittle players when they hold out or complain about contracts. Especially when they say "this isn't about money, this is about respect".

Until you have been a Negro, belittled by Joe Torre in front of the mostly white Yankees, you will never understand how true it is.

And we wonder why the Negro community is losing interest in baseball.

64 comments:

Burnsy said...

True story: Sheffield spilled a drink on an ex-female-bedroom-partner of mine at a nightclub in Tampa. She gave him attitude about it and demanded he pay her for new shoes, even though she had no clue who he was until later. Sheff told her to go fuck herself. He is now my favorite athlete ever.

Sirs.

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"Sheff told her to go fuck herself."

Sir, certainly you are paraphrasing.

In Tampa as well, yours truly was at a mall with a female companion. I opened a door for her to go through, gentleman that I am...and someone brushed her out of the way and walked right on by. Scowling at her.

She said, "my god, that is one angry looking guy.".

I looked at him and recognized him and said, "no, that is Gary Sheffield."

He became my favorite player that day...he told her to fuck off without even saying a word.

Burnsy said...

Sir, yes there was a more colorful comment allegedly made, however I only prefer the meat of the story, as opposed to the potatoes.

Jackin'4Beats said...

This post was great, much better than the same drivel and useless opinion that was on the WWL for the past 3-4 days.

Nicholas said...

This entire article is a joke.

Molitor said...

Remember where this story is coming from. Sheffield with all of his baseball talent has played with 7 teams overhis career. He has been a cancer in every locker room he has been in. In his early years with teh Milwaukee breweres he admitted to making errors on purpose in order to facilitate a trade.

Anything he says has to be taken with a grain of salt.

You can tell that even the black community has a hard time with believing Sheff's accusations. Rev. Al hasnt contacted the press to perform his sensational self promotion in front of Yankee Stadium. And when Rev. Al passes up a chance to talk to the media there has to be some sort of B.S. to the story


Let me hear from Dave Winfield, Reggie Jackson, Willie Randolph, Mickey Rivers, Charlie Hayes, Dwight Gooden...

MCBias said...

Now, now, this is ridiculous. I'm sure there's a black player somewhere who's had many delightful years with Joe, someone who could speak up for Joe and talk about how well the Yankees have treated him. It's just coincidental that Shef is speaking up right after Joe Torre did away with Bernie Williams for not working hard enough in Joe's cigar factory in Havana...whoops, no one was supposed to know that.

Jarrett Carter said...

It's interesting that Kenny Lofton has come out in defense of Sheffield's comments, thereby giving them more validity because Lofton has not been an inflammatroy personality during his career.

It's hard to tell whether this is absolutely true, but you would hate to think that a person who witnessed the hatred towards Hank Aaron's home run chase would be so outwardly racist towards a player.

Dave the Wave said...

sheffield is a rabble rousing race baiter.

it's well documented. to him, disrespect means not treating him like his shit don't stink and ignoring the holes in his game and his shitty attitude.

he's a joke.

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"Remember where this story is coming from. Sheffield with all of his baseball talent has played with 7 teams overhis career. He has been a cancer in every locker room he has been in. In his early years with teh Milwaukee breweres he admitted to making errors on purpose in order to facilitate a trade. "

Sir, his troubles with various organizations have been all too well documented.

And, your example fully supports our contention.

How horrible the situation must have been for a proud man like Shef to have to lower his game in an effort to be moved out of town to find respect with another team.

Thank you for siting that example in support of Shef. It is a pleasure to know that readers out there back him.

censored said...

It's interesting that Kenny Lofton has come out in defense of Sheffield's comments, thereby giving them more validity because Lofton has not been an inflammatroy personality during his career.

Sheffield cited both Lofton and Tony Womack as examples of Torre treating black players differently. Both of those players performed horribly in their time with the yankees and maybe that was the reason they were treated differently (as in not getting playing time etc.) Sheff is still hurt that the yankees let him go. He is like a whiny bitch who got dumped by her man and even though she found a successful new man, cant get over the old guy.
The face of the yankees is a negro..Derek Jeter...he loves Joe Torre. Now before anyone on this blog starts knocking jeter as "not all negro" like Sheff has, remember on this blog Tiger Woods has been referred to as negro and the prevailing thought process here is that white america only sees skin color as the determiner of race. Hence the most beloved Yankee and the face of the franchise is Derek Jeter. Sheffield has always been jealous of stars he feels receive more press than him...Jeter, Bonds, etc.....and what cant be disputed is how under Torre black players such as Cecil Fielder, Doc Gooden, Darryl Strawberry, Chili Davis, etc. have rebuilt their careers. Find those guys and see what they have to say about Torre. Sheff should spend more time on trying to keep his wife out of sex videos and less on whining. You arent a yankee anymore...get over it.

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"The face of the yankees is a negro..Derek Jeter...he loves Joe Torre."

Sir.......HUH??

We stopped reading as soon as we got to this line. And we dismiss your input on this subject (even more quickly than we normally would).

Are you dense?

"Derek Jeter just ain't all the way black"

Now, please...just stop your habitual poor behavior on here. This is a subject that not even you are ignorant enought to foul up.

Malcom Hex said...

"remember on this blog Tiger Woods has been referred to as negro and the prevailing thought process here is that white america only sees skin color as the determiner of race."

see, that is where the disconnect with you is...read nois post here.

he makes it clear. it''s not intent that matters, it's perception.

so, YOU, as a cracker, don't have the say on what is race based and what isn't. And, you, as a cracker don't have the currency or insight or ability to sit there and say when and under what circumstances Tiger woods is a negro and when he isn't.

you don't understand what it is like to be treated a certain why by white people because of the color of your skin.

and, dont pretend to tell anyone what the prevailing thought process on nois is. you rarely understand the words of the posts, let alone the thought process.

blackrooster said...

Sirs, how can you say that it doesn't matter what Torre did but only what Sheffield felt? This approach gets us nowhere. It allows "victims" to cry racism without a thoughtful discussion of the facts. It makes people scared to have intelligent conversations about race and instead speak only in cowardly PC terms.

If Torre treated Sheffield differently because of race, Torre's a racist. If he did not, but Sheffield perceived a slight, Torre is not a racist, and Sheff has some nerve accusing him. You can't have an intelligent conversation about this issue if you care only about this "victim's" feelings. And I think Sheff needs a little more facts before he goes calling Torre a racist.

ultrasound tech said...

"Sheff is still hurt that the yankees let him go"

so, you think he wanted to stay with the yankees?

ummm, yea. ok. aren't you the guy that pretends to be the baseball expert? LOL.

John John The Bastard said...

"sheffield is a rabble rousing race baiter"

Says the rabble rousing race baiter. Also, if you must expound your hatred, please, at least use proper written grammar so you look slightly less ill-informed. Oh and I am not going to refer to you as sir because the term Pot seems more appropriate.

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"You can't have an intelligent conversation about this issue if you care only about this "victim's" feelings. And I think Sheff needs a little more facts before he goes calling Torre a racist."

Sir, perhaps we were not as effective in our communication as we hoped.

While we did and do believe that the perception in this case is the most important thing. That it is the perception that matters.

We would never suggest that intelligent discourse can't prevail. Or that a solution can't be found.

Based on the holding that it is the person's perception that is the impetus for legitimate evaluation of the treatment, it seems logical and fair to suggest that we can derive a solution.

It' paramount that who carry out the actions or behaviors are educated on how their actions are perceived. That they understand the specifics of how their actions cause a Negro player to feel like he is being treated different.

Once the intelligent conversation is opened up, and the transgressor understands that his actions were what caused the perception (again, whether a legitimate perception or not...it doesn't matter) the offender can be intelligently rehabilitated to modify his behavior.

So, the reality of it, isn't that this sort of outlook causes people to walk on egg shells and avoid the situation. Quite the opposite,
Once white leaders understand that their actions and treatment of Negroes can be perceived as offensive (regardless of impetus or intent), only then can they work on bettering their communication skills and behaving a way that won't be perceived as offensive.

This outlook will lead to much more open and effective discourse on race.

Discourse we can't have unless people like Shef have the strength to stand up and say, "you don't treat me the way i want to be treated. and i think it's because i'm black."

That takes courage.


Oh, and Shef specifically said he didn't think that Torre was racist.

So, let's not make race the central issue here.

Thank you.

ZEKE said...

"Says the rabble rousing race baiter. Also, if you must expound your hatred, please, at least use proper written grammar so you look slightly less ill-informed. Oh and I am not going to refer to you as sir because the term Pot seems more appropriate. "

look at this fella getting all uppity.

i like your spunk. but don't get all carried away just cause you have some schooling.

Timbo said...

As a white person, let me say that it will be a great time to be alive when black people, or "Negroes", start to like themselves enough so that they don't blame others for their own failures. A great time, indeed.

runninonmt said...

@Malcom Hex- So, if someone's a "cracker" they can't determine a black persons ethnicity, or lack thereof, correct? By the same token, a "cracker" should be able to decide if someone is white, or not, as well, no? So if a "cracker" decides that someone isn't white (thereby making them black, etc), what is the differnce, ultimately, from a black man saying someone isn't a negro? Bit of circular reasoning there...

On a serious note, which as much as you all "perceive" this board to be, but ,in fact, is anything but (mostly anyway)- way to break down those racial divides, brother. People tend to stop listening when you call them names, particularly racist ones. Isn't this "pain" what you're trying to defend/explain, and enlighten others about? My wife doesn't listen very well when I start sentences off with, "Bitch, you need to (insert appropriate verb/adjective/etc. here)...."

Unless we're having sex, and then it's just kinky. (back to the fun now :)

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

" "Negroes", start to like themselves enough so that they don't blame others for their own failures."

Sir, in exactly what way has Shef failed?

He's a multimillionaire who is going to go down statistically as an all time excellent power hitter.

Ahh. Ahh.

Your trite insinuation that "the Negro blames his lack of success on whitey" is squashed by the fact that...this Negro IS a success.

Hit us back with another means of mitigating the veracity in Shef's statements.

If you can.

ZEKE said...

"My wife doesn't listen very well when I start sentences"

well, that's your problem...

START your sentence with a slap...and finish with words...your little hottentot will get her ass right in line. I guarentee it.

Malcom Hex said...

"On a serious note, which as much as you all "perceive" this board to be, but ,in fact, is anything but (mostly anyway)- way to break down those racial divides, brother. "

can i get a ruling here....what are you saying?

Timbo said...

Sheff failed in New York. So did Kenny Lofton. Yet they both say Joe Torre treated then differently and it must be because they're black. Of course, that must be it.

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"Congrats on your success. You sound as surprised about it as anyone."

Sir, a racists says, what?

No, not OUR success. We said SHEF was a success.

Well, you made one thing clear.

We can't prove you are wrong when you have no clue what we are talking about.

Kudos on using your ignorance as insulation against criticism.

Well done.

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"Sheff failed in New York. So did Kenny Lofton. Yet they both say Joe Torre treated then differently and it must be because they're black. Of course, that must be it."

Sir, stop the presses.

We have a request.

If you and "censored" are going to start repeating the same points to support your views...please get together and enter singular posts.

The double team effort is lowering the quality of our otherwise highly thought of comments section.

Thanks in advance.

Timbo said...

I'll repeat, Sheff failed in New York. So did Kenny Lofton. Yet they both say Joe Torre treated them differently and it must be because they're black. Of course, that must be it.

Timbo said...

Any answer, Mr.Nation of Islam?

Timbo said...

Let's take this a step further. In MLB this season, exactly who have disgraced themselves with actions and/or statements? Gary Sheffield, Elijah Dukes, Milton Bradley, and Barry Bonds, to name a few. This from a sport in which the percentage of minorities are at an all-time low since 1947.

What do you think MLB executives are saying to themselves? Do we really want the same problems facing the NFL and NBA?

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"I'll repeat, Sheff failed in New York. So did Kenny Lofton. Yet they both say Joe Torre treated them differently and it must be because they're black. Of course, that must be it. "

"Any answer, Mr.Nation of Islam? "

Sir, umm...sure.

Answer: Generally, when one demands an answer, they have asked a question.

You didn't.

Next!

John John The Bastard said...

Timbo, lets add to that list, Paul LoDuca, Jason Grimsley, Alex Salas, Chris Young and Michael Barrett.

John John The Bastard said...

Oh and Timbo would those problems be higher television viewership and regard?

Steven A's Cheese Doodles said...

"Timbo"

go back to posting as "censored"...

Timbo said...

John John, MLB television ratings have never been higher.

Tripod said...

"Timbo, lets add to that list, Paul LoDuca, Jason Grimsley, Alex Salas, Chris Young and Michael Barrett. "

and add that white dude on the cardinals that got pulled for drinking and driving...and then the next week got drunk and killed himself driving...that isn't good behavior.

Timbo said...

tripod, how do you explain away the troubles of the NBA and NFL?

Tripod said...

"John John, MLB television ratings have never been higher. "

the all star games ratings were down 10% from last year.

you are full of shit. provide a link. you made that up.

Timbo said...

Mr. Nation of Islam, why would Gary Sheffield and Kenny Lofton assume that the perceived problems they had with Joe Torre be because they are black? If Frank Robinson were their manager what would their excuse be?

Did I write that out clearly enough for you?

Tripod said...

"tripod, how do you explain away the troubles of the NBA and NFL?"

troubles? oh you mean the handful of brothas do messed up shit and then the media makes it headlines? and then never writes a thing or makes headlines about things like Starbury donating 4M to NYC and the other positive shit he is doing?

you mean explain why Stephen Jackson shooting a gun in the air got 25 stories on espn outlets...but Starburys charity events and positive things only got 4...

i can't explain it...you try.

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"Mr. Nation of Islam, why would Gary Sheffield and Kenny Lofton assume that the perceived problems they had with Joe Torre be because they are black? If Frank Robinson were their manager what would their excuse be?"

Sir, you've answered your own question.

And, you've completely misconstrued what Shef said. He said he felt that Torre treated Negro players differently than other players.

Additionally, this is your one and only reminder.

Go back to posting as "censored" or we will delete your posts.

We haven't let you off your leash, get back in the yard.

Timbo said...

Sorry that I asked the same question as the other guy but I didn't read the comments before I wrote my own. Can it be more than one person feels this way?

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"Can it be more than one person feels this way?"

Sir, you mean can there be more than one racist sharing that point of view?

Timbo said...

I happen to be one of five "cracker" teachers at an all "Negro" inner-city school. You have no idea what a racist is and it appears name-calling is your only defense.

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"I happen to be one of five "cracker" teachers at an all "Negro" inner-city school."

Sir, ahhh. The white man's version of the race card.

"I know some black folk"

That give you NO currency here or elsewhere.

"You have no idea what a racist is and it appears name-calling is your only defense. "

Sir, we've called you no names.

We simply described your mindset.

Defense?

Seems you've become the defensive one.

censored said...

Yes Nois finally others are catching on to your white hating ways. You are a racist punk who resorts to name calling when you have your points shot down. Again, why is it that you refer to tiger woods as negro but are okay with the description of Jeter as "not all the way negro"..the answer is clear, you switch depending on your agenda. The fact is that Jeter has had a terrific relationship with Torre as have many other negro players... the problem here is with Sheffields perception. Maybe it really is because of his own personal problems that he is sent packing after a couple of seasons with every team he plays for. He was hurt that the yankees wouldnt offer him an extension so he invents these scenarios. This is a player who you associate with great insight yet he wasnt even smart enough to know he was putting steroids in his body..maybe he perceived them as just vitamins...he probably perceived his wife as a good christian woman before her porn tapes came out too.

And as far as ultrasoundtechs point..it was heavily reported in NY papers that sheffield went and appealed to steinbrenner to have his contract option for this year picked up, so yes he did want to stay in NY..it was the yankees who cut ties with HIM....so maybe you should get off of NOIS' jock and read a paper once in a while.

Many on this blog perceive NOIS as a white hating, race baiting, bigot...in that case perception is truth.

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"Many on this blog perceive NOIS as a white hating, race baiting, bigot"

Sir, so in that case, we will quickly dismiss the perception.

You aren't on the Yankees, know nothing about what goes on behind closed doors. Yet, without hesitation, you dismiss the validity of Shef's perception.

We apply the same principle to you and your perception.

The only difference: we are here and know what goes on.

Your perception is wrong.

And, don't bother arguing otherwise.

If you do, then you would look like a hypocrit.



We have one agenda. Righteousness.

You have one agenda. Ignorance.

We win. Again.

Vance said...

I wonder how the author of this blog determined 'truth'?

There is no argument that Shef states his opinion. However Shef's subjective opinion is not 'truth', any more than Rosie O'Donnell's opinion that gay women are put down is 'truth'.

How is this 'truth' defined?

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"Shef's subjective opinion is not 'truth'"

Sir, Shef's "subjective opinion" is that he perceived to be treated differently.

That is the truth.

Try and discredit it, and you wrong.

Steven A's Cheese Doodles said...

"How is this 'truth' defined? "

on NOIS, the truth is self evident...either you see it or ya don't

Jason Giannitti said...

Uh, Sheff wonders why they wanted Vlad? He only is 10 or so years younger on an old team. Plus he won the MVP. Sheff is a great player, but he takes very little, if no heat for steroids (which all goes to Bonds)and seemingly gets a pass for all the times he has tanked it (or said he would) in order to get a trade to team that would pay him more. The Yanks never would have dumped him if he hadnt made it clear throughout his career that he would tank it unless he got his extention ASAP. It is a major problem in MLB that there is fewer and fewer black players in the league, but Sheff doesn't help anyone's image by coming out and calling out a future hall of famer without any evidence other than he was called out in some meetings.

Vance said...

Of course Shef's expresses his perceptions. However, what again is this 'truth'?

Not arguing against anything said. Understand that.

However 'truth' is a word which should not easily be tossed out there without actual evidence.

Shef could say that the sun sets in the East. That could be his opinion, however is not the 'truth'.

Just wondering what authority this blog uses in saying that Shef's opinion represents 'truth'.

Does Joe Torre treat players differently based on their ethnic background? Is there evidence other than Shef's tantrum? Or does it matter anymore what actually occurs, or what someone perceives occurs?

Which races, faiths, genders, and ages does Joe Torre treat differently, and what is the evidence if any?

Tittle500 said...

Have the Joe Torre era Yankees been mostly white? I'm not saying they haven't. I'm just asking... is that a fact?

I suppose it doesn't matter what the racial breakdown has been... what really matters is that you have perceived the Yankees to be mostly white...

because if you have perceived the Yankees to be mostly white.... then that is the "truth"....

and I guess since you and another commentor (who could be a black man... but I have no way of knowing) think it is reasonable for the Chef to think that blacks were treated differently by Torre... then it is totally reasonable for me to say that black people think that Joe Torre treated blacks differently...

are you as unintelligent as you write? do you mean to contradict yourself in every post? do you intentionally misunderstand the true meaning of righteousness in nearly every post? probably not. But, if I think you are ignorant about your own cause, then you are.

--------

I disagree with a lot of the logic you use in these arguments. But, I do think a major part of what you've written is spot on... The media headlines and blurbs about Gary's comments have missed his entire point... and to just assume that Gary is a cancer because he's played for a lot of teams and has been outspoken about Bonds, Dukes, and Torre/black white relations will do nothing to help us all get along and enjoy life a little more...

If nothing else, thanks for provoking me to think about this more than I ever would have had I only read the 8 words that were pulled for a quote by such and such paper...

I'd enjoy a cup of coffee in your company... or even a piece of Sal's famous...

censored said...

Sir, Shef's "subjective opinion" is that he perceived to be treated differently.

That is the truth.

Try and discredit it, and you wrong.

My "subjective opinion" is that NOIS is a white hating, race baiting, ignorant bigot who thinks by discrediting whites he elevates the worst of black culture.

That is the truth.

Try and discredit it, and you wrong.

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"Uh, Sheff wonders why they wanted Vlad? He only is 10 or so years younger on an old team. Plus he won the MVP."

Sir, thank you for your reasonable and sincere contribution.

Sheff didn't say he wonders why the Yankees wanted Vlad. He said he found it hurtful and confidence destroying that the manager and management kept saying "we could have had Vlad" AFTER they brought Shef in. A team that was concerned about treating their own players well wouldn't continually let that player know that they wished they had someone else. Yes?

"Sheff is a great player, but he takes very little, if no heat for steroids (which all goes to Bonds)"

Sir, could it be that due to Shef's history of being straight forward and not playing games, the media took him at his word that it was a mistake?

"seemingly gets a pass for all the times he has tanked it (or said he would) in order to get a trade to team that would pay him more."

As we clearly documented in th original post. This behavior wasn't about money. It was one man's desperate attempt to find acceptance, fair treatment and respect.

Obviously, the way Shef perceived he was being treated clouded his judgment. But then, subhuman treatment can lead men to desperate acts.

"calling out a future hall of famer without any evidence other than he was called out in some meetings."

Shef made it clear that he felt that he and certain other players were treated differently. He also made it clear that he wasn't calling anyone a racist.

So, let's leave race out of this, it only muddles the issue and obscures what the actual complaint is...

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"However 'truth' is a word which should not easily be tossed out there without actual evidence."

Sir, we agree with this in its entirety.

In fact we identify this in the title block of our blog.

Thank you for reaffirming this commitment.

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"Have the Joe Torre era Yankees been mostly white? I'm not saying they haven't. I'm just asking... is that a fact?"

Sir, first of all...Indiana University has athletics other than basketball? Who knew!

Anyway, if you are making the argument that Negroes haven't been a small minority on the Torre era Yankees...We don't think we can make a case to support you. Looking at the rosters, the teams have been predominantly white and latino. So, to suggest that there was a dearth of Negro players seems fair. It seems to hold adequate truthiness (to bite Colbert).

" then it is totally reasonable for me to say that black people think that Joe Torre treated blacks differently..."

We stated in our post that we felt it reasonable for Shef to use this same logic, so we invite you to do the same.

"are you as unintelligent as you write? do you mean to contradict yourself in every post? do you intentionally misunderstand the true meaning of righteousness in nearly every post? probably not. But, if I think you are ignorant about your own cause, then you are."

Sir, do we contradict ourselves, or do you get lost in your own logic in your seemingly unwavering attempt to dispute what we say because you have a diametrically oppositional view of the situation?

If you come to our post intent on being contrarian, without the capacity to be openminded, well...of course you are going to WANT to call us ignorant.

"But, I do think a major part of what you've written is spot on."

Sir, if we may...we levy the same accusation you made. That your comment contradicts itself. You call our writing illogical, contradictory and insinuate (quite forwardly) that it is ignornant. Yet YOU agree with the major points?

"If nothing else, thanks for provoking me to think about this more than I ever would have had I only read the 8 words that were pulled for a quote by such and such paper..."

Ahh. Could it be that, after you muddle through our ignornace and self contradiction...that maybe this is what the post is REALLY about?

"I'd enjoy a cup of coffee in your company... or even a piece of Sal's famous... "

Sounds good.

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"My "subjective opinion" is that NOIS is a white hating, race baiting, ignorant bigot who thinks by discrediting whites he elevates the worst of black culture.

That is the truth.

Try and discredit it, and you wrong."

Sir, unfortunately, in your attempt to use our quote about Shef against us...you left out the KEY word to the whole thing.

Perceived. (perception)

Therefore, we have no choice.

Your point is discredited.

You are wrong.

Again.

You still aren't good at this.

runninonmt said...

Wow, quite a listing, after just a night away.

@ Malcom Hex- NOISb is, from my "perspective" (see- perception) is someone who doesn't take himself nearly as seriously as the rest of you (for the most part, anyway). While his "bias" is clearly evident throughout his postings, it is also evident that he is just having fun, while trying to encourage thought on obviously sensitive and/or racially charged subjects. This is not to say I don't think he isn't serious, but the over-the-top approach is designed to create controversy, as well as interest. I get a kick out of reading these, and it helps pass the time. Calling someone a cracker is no better than calling someone a n!@#%r, and certainly doesn't help enlighten people to the black man's plight. Assuming you truly are interested in having your voice heard, I would encourage you to avoid this tactic, but hey, that's just my opinion, and what do I know? (<-key point, btw :)

censored said...

"My "subjective opinion" is that NOIS is a white hating, race baiting, ignorant bigot who thinks by discrediting whites he elevates the worst of black culture.

That is the truth.

Try and discredit it, and you wrong."

Sir, unfortunately, in your attempt to use our quote about Shef against us...you left out the KEY word to the whole thing.

Perceived. (perception)

Therefore, we have no choice.

Your point is discredited.

inherent in "subjective opinion" is perspective. Now go buy a thesaurus. The truth is unavoidable regardless of how you spin away from it.

nation_of_islam_sportsblog said...

"inherent in "subjective opinion" is perspective. Now go buy a thesaurus. The truth is unavoidable regardless of how you spin away from it. "


Sir, LOL.

You really don't get a damned thing here.

Your obstinance is overwhelming.

You have once again made our day.

All the best.

Steven A's Cheese Doodles said...

"You really don't get a damned thing here."

too funny. he doesn't realize how stupid he just made himself appear.

or should i just say how stupid he is...

ultrasound tech said...

"or should i just say how stupid he is... "

come on now. it's not that he's stupid. it's just that he spends so much time trying to prove nois wrong that he doesn't even see what is going on. and he spends all his time looking for contradictions and totally misses the word games nois plays.

censored is obsessed. and can't see the forrest in the trees.

basically, nois has MADE him stupid. LOL

censored said...

hey soundtech, what color lipstick does NOIS most like to see you in?

ultrasound tech said...

"hey soundtech, what color lipstick does NOIS most like to see you in? "

red...same color as your ass after he spanks it.