From cnnsi.com:
Under terms of his plea agreement, Vick has to pay for all the costs associated with the 53 dogs living on his property and now being housed at a Virginia animal shelter. If the dogs are euthanized (most, if not all, have been trained in a manner that they cannot be house pets), Vick will have to pay for the cost of putting them to sleep.
Excuse us.
But, isn't Vick going to jail for financing an operation that caused the deaths of dogs?
Now he is being 'punished' by financing an operation that will cause the deaths of dogs?
American Justice...it's FANTASTIC!
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"Sentimental irony is a dog that bays at the moon while pissing on graves." -Karl Kraus
I don't know what that means, but quoting Austrian satirists makes me feel superior.
Sir,
We are fans of Kraus as well. So we can share in your elitist feelings.
Our favorite quote:
"A writer is someone who can make a riddle out of an answer."
Seems Karl knows us.
This seems more than a tad argumentative. I get your point, but honestly, by the sentencing guidelines it's clear the government is treating this as a property crime, not a violent crime, living dogs or no. If Vick ran a meth lab he'd be paying the clean-up costs too. Euthanizing dogs, or killing them, whatever you want to call it, it's clean-up costs too. Ugly truth, but the truth.
"I get your point, but honestly, by the sentencing guidelines it's clear the government is treating this as a property crime, not a violent crime, living dogs or no"
Sir, then if that is the case...isn't the demand of 12-18 months of incarceration unusual for a first time offender. If it is being treated as not being a violent crime?
Argumentative or not.
There are just such unusual inconsistencies in this that we must ask...
I read a report on ESPN regarding the "latest" on the Vick case. I found this interesting:
"Federal prosecutors recommended 12-18 months in prison for Vick and co-defendants Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips. Tony Taylor, the first defendant to plead guilty, was not involved in the conspiracy after 2004 and is not as culpable, U.S. Attorney Chuck Rosenberg said in a statement.
"A first-time offender might well receive no jail time for this offense," Rosenberg said. "We thought, however, that the conduct in this conspiracy was heinous, cruel and inhumane."
A first time offender might well receive no jail time?
An unusual sentence indeed.
PETA must be torn about which party to hate on at this point.
Sirs, I don't wish to imperil the NOIS, but this conspiracy goes all the way to the top:
Chuck Rosenberg was appointed by Attorney General Alberto Gonzales in March 2006 to serve as the United States Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia.
Now, lo and behold: just as Vick is railroaded into an all-too well-crafted speech, Gonzales steps down, his work finally complete.
Doubtless, sirs, that phone records will reveal an unusually high number of calls between Roger Goodell's office and the DOJ starting around 18 months ago. Where is the inquiry? Where is the real investigation? Where is the JUSTICE???
"PETA must be torn about which party to hate on at this point."
Speaking of the geriatrics known as PETA, I read an interesting story today from abc on the menopausal group titled 'Vick Case Ignites Battle Over Animal Rights: PETA Defends Euthanasia for Sick, Dying Pets: 'A Tragic Kindness'
I took note of this part of the article:
"PETA loves to point the finger at others when they should be looking at their own record of killing more than 90 percent of the animals left in their care," according to the ad.
The group cited records from the Virginia state veterinarian and court documents on what it called PETA's "roving death van" that "killed dozens of dogs and cats, tossing them into a trash Dumpster."
PETA supports the banning of pit bulls so they're quite happy with this feat.....they get to pretend like they're horrified at dogfighting while simultaneously pretending like they're upset over these dogs ultimate demise. Its really quite the coup for the organization that managed to make FEMA include pet rescue as a priority right along with people after Hurricane Katrina.....well what can we say...its not like we didn't know they equated us with dogs.
"well what can we say...its not like we didn't know they equated us with dogs."
True. I am slowly realizing that for a sizable portion of the White population in this country, the rights of Blacks are not so much an undeniable necessity of humanity, but a consequence, even side-effect, of what others have. This is the crux of their argument: "Blacks have that, thus we should have this."
I live near the Georgia Dome....so I wonder if all those people who threatened to boycott the games are now coming....cause right now, there is no traffic and no tailgating. Not the scene from last August, that's for sure. Wouldn't you think all of those so vigilant in demanding Vick's suspension be standing in line patronizing the Falcons organization?? Yes?? Maybe?? Not a chance in hell?
"The next step is helping Michael understand what led to this and helping him develop the skills to ensure that his reintegration into society after his institutionalization is well supported."
NOIS
Vick: Finally Over, Let the Rehabilitation Begin
Friday, August 24, 2007
Sir, I agree. But if Vick deserves rehabilitation, certainly the pit bulls deserve as much consideration.
It seems to me that the government is punishing Vick and the dogs without much concern for the well-being of either. If we truly want to rehabilitate Vick and the dogs, he shouldn't be jailed but required to perform community service in a doggie rehabilitation center - 12 Step Kennelz.
As has been advocated on this estimable blog, Arthur Blank and the Falcons organization share Vick's culpability for this unfortunate situation. As such, 12 Step Kennels would be established using Vick's football salary until such time as the dogs are ready to reenter society, at which point Vick could return to the Falcons without interference from the government or the NFL, as per the terms of his existing contract.
"Sir, then if that is the case...isn't the demand of 12-18 months of incarceration unusual for a first time offender. If it is being treated as not being a violent crime?"
Just to make a record of it, you'll get no argument from me on this. He clearly is being made an example of, and his celebrity has everything to do with it. Now, I'm a white guy, so I'm not going to make the call that his race is in the mix. I have no rectitude on that, and while I can't empathize with your mistrust of the justice system, I certainly sympathize with and, to whatever extent, understand it.
When you're being prosecuted by people who are, or are answerable to, politicians, that happens, and it isn't just. I'm racking my brain for a token white in the same position but can't get it yet. Pete Rose did time for lying to the IRS, if that's meaningful.
"I have no rectitude "
man, the way you are kissing nois's butt...you have nothing but rectitude.
pillow biter.
And whatever the case, the sentencing guidelines are just that, guidelines. 12 to 18 months still falls within the nonviolent crime spectrum.
If this had been something other than dogs, he'd be doing no time. The problem is the dogs, and the photos of the dogs, and the horrible mental imagery of a fight dog's life. That's the force multiplier in all of this against Vick, and it is legitimate that some crimes are treated as worse than others, some carry a harsh penalty for the first offense, others don't.
The true injustice would be to punish all crimes, regardless of circumstance with a set, inflexible sentence. Oh wait, we already do that for federal drug offenders* never mind.
(* Except where crack 3x> powder coke)
wave, don't bother baiting me. You add nothing to the discussion. That's the last time I'll address you.
Sir, then if that is the case...isn't the demand of 12-18 months of incarceration unusual for a first time offender.
He has admittedly been doing this sort of thing for six plus years. I think the first time offender argument is "not good"
Nice touch. Still argumentative, but nice.
Are they euthanizing all the dogs, or just those injured so badly they must be put down? Of the rest how many must be put down because they're too violent, unable to be placed in a home?
Anyone know?
Sebastian,
Nearly all will be euthanized, not just the maimed.
Animal shelters are burdened with enough adoptable animals as it is. Taking on what is basically a deadly weapon, which has the potential to maim other animals they are caring for, not to mention staff, is not an effective use of the limited resources of a shelter. Nor is it responsible for them to place for adoption an animal that has been bred to fight to the death. And finally, the expense of attempting to retrain that dog, plus the uncertainty that it will be effective, plus the liability and exposure the shelter and its funding source (a government in this case) would face for releasing such an unknown, make the decision a no brainer.
The dogs will be killed. That too is the responsibility of Bad Newz Kennels. It was their fate from day one.
tacobell-
ya know what?
please, DON'T respond to me again.
holy shit, i just read your blog. a blog from the point of view of scooby doo...and you WRITE like scooby TALKS????
holy shit...
you are one special child.
NOIS,
Today I rolled through a 4 way stop sign, and got a ticket. Society is to blame. So I can share in Mr. Vick's pain.
The corporation and "man" that employed me never told me it was wrong, and the allowed me to continue making decisions. Society allowed me to do do this, too. I always roll through stop signs. For whatever reason, I got caught this time. We are all to blame. Are you ready to accept responsibility?
In addition, my parents should be suspended from their jobs. Even though I'm 22 and in college, I'm still somewhat financially dependent on them. Clearly, I'm out of control as it was my 8th traffic violation. Suspend them from their job.
Also, here is a quote. The Shimmey speaks the truth, but the NOIS can't handle it...or something.
"Landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed."
Karl Marx
I'd say the ultimate irony is that America has finally succumbed to its own hypocrisy to the point it has forgotten what it stands for. America is the land of unadulterated capitalism. A land where bigotry, cruelty, inhumanity and sheer spitefulness were tolerated as long as one was successfully raking in millions. Apparently now the wealth and successful are held to the same standards as the general riff-raff? When did the rules change? When did America forget that the only that matters is winning(in most cases in the pecuniary sense, in Vick's case the football field, which translates into the former). I for one have lost my appetite for hardwork and sacrifice now that I realize my financial success will not allow me to fulfill my wildest and most sadistic dreams. Dog-fighting? This is a country that burned witches, invented terms like octoroon and lets human beings bake in the desert as they try to share in our unimaginable wealth.
"For whatever reason, I got caught this time."
"Clearly, I'm out of control as it was my 8th traffic violation. "
Robert, hard to take your feeble analogy seriously if you can't even stay consistant to your moot point.
"Suspend them from their job."
Is your father employed by an organization which invokes a very specific code of conduct, like the NFL? Is the result of your inappropriate behavior bad publicity for the NFL team your father coaches or the league that employs him? We looked at all the NFL rosters and couldn't find a head coach with the last name Schaffner.
Really, you can do better than this pathetic attempt.
We are.....
....embarrassed for you.
I'm sure whatever university you attend is pleased you didn't identify them in your profile.
Your poor logic, inconsistant reasoning and anemic reading comprehension reflect poorly on their 'MBA' program.
We at NOIS have a strange suspicion that we will NEVER hear of anything important from one Robert Schaffner.
Back to school with you, young man.
I was impressed by Vick's statement.Except the part about Jesus-it seemed a little contrived.Made him sound too much like your average Republican politician caught having a coke-fueled sexual affair with a 14 year old of the same gender.I'm a little cynical about foxhole conversions.
'master'NOIS,sir,drivers may be ticketed for many(at least 7) traffic violations besides rolling through stop signs.No inconsistency there.Sir.
Also,sir,assuming for an instant that your argument for suspending Reid for the alleged transgressions of his adult children has any legitimacy beyond the rabbit hole logic that defines your blog,please explain how far we should extend the policy.Should we adopt it throughout society or confine it to the NFL?Should it apply to children only,or to anyone sharing the same household and/or recieving material assistance at any time,for instance spouses,siblings,parents,uncles,aunts,cousins,etc,similar to government policies regarding residents of public housing?Should it be applied for all felony and misdemeanors,or be limited to more narrow categories?Should it be applied in any case where the adult child(or spouse,or sibling,etc.)is accused,or must we wait for a conviction?Please,sir,the inner Scalia in all of us awaits your answer.
"Should we adopt it throughout society or confine it to the NFL?"
Sir, we were talking about Andy Reid and the NFL, right?
We were discussing the NFL code of conduct, right?
Folks, we can't have intelligent discourse if it is one sided.
If you can't bring anything intelligent or well thought out to the table, please don't pull up a chair.
Thank you in advance.
So then,'master'NOIS' sir,limiting your novel theory of collective punishment to tne NFL,does the rule apply to head coaches only,or is it applicable down through the ranks to the least powerful secretaries and switchboard operators?And as previously asked and not answered,sir,would it include not only adult children but also other friends and relatives who may recieve a financial stipend from the NFL employee or shared a residence?And,of course,sir,your example of Reid suggests punishment for crimes his adult children were only accused of committing,so shall we take as implicit your agreement that legal guilt or innocence is of no consequence?
"And,of course,sir,your example of Reid suggests punishment for crimes his adult children were only accused of committing,so shall we take as implicit your agreement that legal guilt or innocence is of no consequence"
Sir, Roger Goodell's issuing a suspension to Pacman clearly has set the precedence for the innocense or guilt question, hasn't it?
And, we assumed the other questions where rhetorical in nature.
They seemed stupid.
"And as previously asked and not answered,sir,would it include not only adult children but also other friends and relatives who may recieve a financial stipend from the NFL employee or shared a residence?"
hey poindexter..what is the point of the code of conduct? the reality is that it is to keep the NFL from receiving bad press.
is a switchboard operator going to generate headline? no.
has Andy Reid's sons? YES.
jeez, you are dense.
Jeez,'master'NOIS,sir,are you evasive.But I loved the 'stupid'bit-reminded me how my kids would label things they didn't understand when they were toddlers.
I believe Pacman took the hit for his own behavior,sir.The fundamental issue in your Reid post(why it's necessary to explain your own posts to you is another issue entirely) is your premise that he accept responsibility for his adult children,possibly related to his financial support to them.How far into a circle of friends and family does that responsibility extend,sir?
"I believe Pacman took the hit for his own behavior,sir."
Sir, evasive?
What could be more evasive than your response here.
Pacman was introduced in reference to your 'question' about guilt or or innocense.
Must weexplain your questions to you?
"The fundamental issue in your Reid post(why it's necessary to explain your own posts to you is another issue entirely) is your premise that he accept responsibility for his adult children,possibly related to his financial support to them.How far into a circle of friends and family does that responsibility extend,sir? "
Sir, if you choose to 'explain' our own posts to us, please do so correctly.
The fundamental point of the Reid post was that he is an NFL employee and his children's actions are besmirching the league and the Eagles, due to his own high profile status.
This isn't about everyday people or laws.
This is about the NFL conduct policy.
Sorry for once again pointing out your underdeveloped reading comprehension, but you leave us no choice. Tho, we do try to be gentle with you.
the winner and still undefeated, N.O.I.S!
'master'NOIS,sir,the 'crux' of your post,which you tacitly admit by featuring it in a second post("look,I'm famous!"),was 'responsibility' and 'accountability'.Your argument is that Reid needs to accept second-hand responsibility and accountability for the actions of adult members of his family.Please point to the 'precedence'in the NFL(or anywhere,for that matter)where your novel concept is enforced.
And,speaking of 'precedence' sir,I guess that by using Pacman as your example to argue for the suspension of Reid while his children are only accused of criminal activity,you must approve of the policy(similar,incidentally to the policy of most corporate employers,where the standards for suspension or dismissal fall far short of those required for conviction in a criminal court-and even then fail to hold individuals accounatable or responsible for the behavior of their friends or family).
ruffian96,run along.The grown ups are trying to have a conversation.
"the 'crux' of your post,which you tacitly admit by featuring it in a second post("look,I'm famous"
OMG...dude, how far off can you be?
If you think the NOIS was say look, I'm famous...you missed the whole point.
ANd that explains why you can't get the "crux" of the post...
he was being SARCASTIC...look at me, i'm famous...i was in PHILLYMAG.COM??? LOL....It was evidently a JOKE...
wow.
NOIS, by your standard of holding players and coaches accountable for the actions of adult children, shouldn't the dozens and dozens of NFL/NBA blacks that have fathered criminals be suspended? Or does the standard of guilt by association only apply to whites?
By the by, why do you rush to defend Vick for the heinous and brutal actions THAT HE ADMITTED TO while crucifying a coach for the non-violent crimes of his adult children? Is it possibly because one is black and the other is not?
I believe that would make you a racist.
"NOIS, by your standard of holding players and coaches accountable for the actions of adult children, shouldn't the dozens and dozens of NFL/NBA blacks that have fathered criminals be suspended? Or does the standard of guilt by association only apply to whites?"
Sir, which 'dozens and dozens' of NBA/NFL Negroes have fathered criminals and are actively playing and coaching?
With all the attention being given to Reid's delinquents, we must have missed all the news on them...
"By the by, why do you rush to defend Vick for the heinous and brutal actions THAT HE ADMITTED TO while crucifying a coach for the non-violent crimes of his adult children? Is it possibly because one is black and the other is not? "
Really? We read that he admitted to conspiracy. And that he confessed to being a party in the 'collective' efforts to destroy the dogs.
Didn't read a confession for hands on involvement in the killing.
Additionally, while the killing of the dogs that Mr. Vick was a collective party to is heinous. No human life was threatened.
Mr. Reid's roustabouts have endangered other motorists with their alleged drunken/drugged driving and one of the derilects brandished a GUN and threatened another motorist.
Yes, friend, let's hang the dog fighting conspirator and applaud Mr. Reid as parent of the year, shall we?
We ask you:
You seem to interpret Mr. Vick's plea in a way that would slant what he has actually confessed to in an effort to support YOUR contentions. And you seem willing to dismiss the act of brandishing GUNS and threatening their use on HUMANS as non-violent?
And then you call US racists because we believe Mr. Reid has been lax in his responsibility of oversight of the young men that reside with him and he provides financial security for?
Really?
We didn't say Reid did anything illegal.
We pointed out that his lack of proper parenting has reflected poorly on the NFL. The bad press he and the Eagles have gotten.
Pacman Jones has been convicted of nothing. And he was suspended.
One supposes that under your logic, that would make the NFL racist, right?
Good point.
There sure are a lot of people who refuse to acknowledge that "collective efforts" does not necessarily mean "with own hands". I really don't think the federal authorities would allow that language simply out of the goodness of their hearts.
pointdexter doesn't read so well... but he sucks good cock...
take it, boy.
Thank you for weighing in princess,miss?sir?,you certainly contributed to moving the discussion forward.Run along now and make fairy rings with ruffian96 while the men talk.
uncommon sense,sir,'master'NOIS' thrill at being noticed was evident despite the attempt to mask it with sarcasm.
'master'NOIS,sir,once again I must ask you to point me to where I may find NFL 'precedence' for coaches,players,or anyone else in a high profile position being fined or suspended for the ALLEGED illegal activities of adult family members.You apparently have privy to a league code of conduct unfamiliar to the rest of us,sir.Also,sir,by continuing to cite Pacman's serial bad behavior,are we to assume that you are in favor of the NFL policy of suspending their high profile employees before a finding of guilt or 'innocense' in a criminal court?And if so,could you explain how the practice differs from the fairly widespread corporate practice of punishing employees for violation of company rules?
In your characteristic fashion,a deluge of words left the questions unaddressed previously.
"Also,sir,by continuing to cite Pacman's serial bad behavior,are we to assume that you are in favor of the NFL policy of suspending their high profile employees before a finding of guilt or 'innocense' in a criminal court?"
Sir, your passive aggressive attacks on NOIS and our commenters are amusing. Juvenile and not well thought out. But amusing, nontheless.
We continually bring up Pacman as a reference to the inconsistency of the NFL's policy.
And you are correct.
We posted about our mention in the esteemed and high profile phillymag as an effort to pat ourselves on the back.
You have a firm grasp of our message here - commence to explain to us how WE are wrong in interpreting OUR OWN writing...LOL.
That is quite obvious.
(where is the 'rolls eyes' emoticon when you need it?)
'master'NOIS,sir,that you confuse my frankly confrontational statements with passive-aggression is disappointing.I see I have given your reading skills too much credit and in the future will alert you to hostile comments.That was a hostile comment,sir.
Sir,you bring up Pacman to argue for the suspension of Reid for the alleged criminal activities of non-employees of the league with whom he has a blood relation.While I disagree that Reid should bear responsibility or accountability for the behavior of his adult children,your citation of Pacman in arguing for the suspension of Reid carries the implication that suspensions in such instances have your approval.Is that the case?
"'master'NOIS,sir,that you confuse my frankly confrontational statements with passive-aggression is disappointing."
Sir, if, in the future, you choose to take the 'confrontational' approach...we direct you to dave the waves measures.
As you can see. In comparison, your approach comes across as passive aggressive.
Ramp it up.
dave the wave,you say 'master'NOIS,sir.How would this be?
How about answering a fucking question once in awhile,burrhead?
man, for a guy that seems to hate NOIS, poinfuxter sure spends a lot of time reading him...
jeff reed's blowdryer,sir,I can understand how a person like yourself would be puzzled by how little time it took many of the very same people you service at your drive up window to navigate in and out of a relatively lowbrow blog.
Don't forget the ketchup with those fries.
"Don't forget the ketchup with those fries."
wow, you are getting more cliched by the minute.
no wonder nois barely bothers addressing your posts.
at least dave the wave is creative.
Sir...Mr. Blowdryer..
Don't let pointdexter fool you.
One of the neat features of blogging is site tracking software.
We actually see how long and how many pages people look at here.
Poindexter has actually spent over 2 HOURS on NOIS today.
I'm sure his employers are thrilled.
jeff reed's blowdryer,sir,sorry sir,the monotony must be stifling.You can throw some mayonaisse in there,too.
'master'NOIS,sir,2 hours?Maybe.In front of the screen?You flatter yourself,sir.
"'master'NOIS,sir,2 hours?Maybe.In front of the screen?You flatter yourself,sir. "
Sir, really...the site tracker doesn't lie.
Maybe, you left your computer on and walked away for two hours?
But that doesn't explain the 33 page views...
Huh?
Honestly, there is nothing flattering about reporting what the site tracker reports...and then watching you lie.
Don't know how we would find that flattering - to ourselves.
Anyway, continue to 'not' spend half your day reading and commenting here.
We'll pretend you don't, if you do.
K?
K!
poindexter, wipe the "mayonaisse [sic]" off your chin...
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