A point is made by one of our more troubled readers:
Mr. Vick clearly admitted today to killing dogs. OK, OK..you say (he says) he participated in a small group collectively responsible for the death of six to eight dogs. You might claim we are arguing semantics, but I say that is killing dogs.
Indeed.
But what does 'collective' effort mean in this case?
The sensible read - based on the government's acceptance of the plea and not forcing Vick to clearly say he physically killed any dogs - is that in this case Vick's contribution to the collective effort in killing the dogs was providing the property and means.
Clearly, if Vick had done any damage with his own two hands, our government prosecutors would have demanded full accountability.
So, most legal experts agree that the wording of the plea is an indication that Vick is admitting that he provided the land on which the killings took place, payed for the electricity to electrocute them and payed for the water to drown them.
As this case winds down it becomes clear in the language of the plea that Vick's guilt was not so much of being an active and physical participant. But rather, that he had a knowledge of and - through his silence - supported the operation.
Now, Mr. Vick must pay for his lack of vigilance in the upkeep of his property. And he will spend some time contemplating the company he keeps.
Hopefully, Vick learns what is unquestionably the most important lesson here:
Friendships without loyalty are no friendships at all.
Let's all take the harsh lesson Mr. Vick has learned to heart.
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33 comments:
"Friendships without loyalty are no friendships at all."
Agreed.
Exactly.
So why has it taken so long for you to admit that the guy was killing dogs?
"So why has it taken so long for you to admit that the guy was killing dogs? "
Sir, we freely admit that Mr. Vick has pleaded guilty to charges which entail his involvement in the collective responsibility for the demise of several dogs.
Not sure if he actually admitted to killing them in the plea.
I agree.....the "collective efforts" is akin to good Samaritan laws...interestly enough there is a case in Minnesota where a woman was sexually assaulted in a hallway and more than 10 people witnessed it (via the security tape) and did not offer any assistance whatsoever....but not helping a woman being assaulted is just a misdemeanor, no federal law applies.
"Vick is admitting that he provided the land on which the killings took place..."
Did this land not also provide these animals a place to live?
"...payed for the electricity to electrocute them..."
Was this electricity not also used to provide heat during those cold Virginia winter nights, and to illuminate those same dark nights?
"...and payed for the water to drown them."
The same water, I might point out, that quenched the canines' thirst after a day of frollicking in their expansive, heated quarters.
Clearly, Mr. Vick was a competent landlord, albeit one felled by his human tenants.
Why has there been no mention of the other person whose name is on the deed for the land and the house? Mike Vick co-owned that property according to Surry County.....Whatever happened to Charles Reamon Jr.?
my hero zero,sir,thank you for that innovative defense of slaveholders,Nazi concentration camps,and Guantanamo.It's about time someone recognized the half-full part of the glass.
"Friendships without loyalty are no friendships at all"
Word. Don't snitch.
Mr. Poindexter:
Sir, comparisons to the Nazi regime never facilitate open discussion, and in this particular arena constitutes not so much a comparison of apples to oranges, as it does one of apples to carburators.
I concur that it was the Nazis that furnished the land, electricty and water used for the sole purpose of genocide; but let us not forget that the national socialists were the all-powerful state. Mr. Vick, on the other hand, purchased his land, electricity and water with the knowledge, and yes, complicity of the state. A true comparison between Vick and Hitler's party, then, should include at the very least the Virginia Commonwealth, as it should be clear that with their silence the condoned, and thus conspired to abet, his alleged criminal activities.
Is this point a stretch? Perhaps. But no more so than comparing the actions of an alleged supporter of dog fighting to a killer of millions.
my hero zero,sir,I believe you're somewhat clumsily invoking Godwin's Law,the intent of which is not to rule out any mention of Nazis or Hitler whatsoever.
The Vick gang were the all powerful state to his animals,just as the Confederate states,the Nazi state,and the United States are the all powerful states to theirs.It's regrettable that you're apparently too obtuse to recognize my argument as simply the extension of your own to more serious historical crimes of much greater proportions.
Also,please detail exactly where,when,and how the Commonwealth of Virginia was complicit in Vick's conspiracy.If you're unable,perhaps alternately you could enlighten us as to how you're able to make so few typing errors while performing the skill with your head up your ass.
If you're unable,perhaps alternately you could enlighten us as to how you're able to make so few typing errors while performing the skill with your head up your ass.
OMG!! Genius. Pure Genius!!!!
"OMG!! Genius. Pure Genius!!!! "
eh...that's the third time I've seen it in the comment threads here....so, it's wee bit recycled...
"eh...that's the third time I've seen it in the comment threads here....so, it's wee bit recycled..."
I thought it was a little too good for someone to have just made it up...
Mr. Poindexter:
Sir, like Mr. Vick, I suppose I have been put in my place. However, since you asked, I'm able to perform the task you mentioned due to the fact that not only do my fingers and anus act independently of each other, they never come in actual physical contact. However, do not let my aversion to digital penetration keep you from your normal evening routine. This is America, after all, and to each his own.
"I thought it was a little too good for someone to have just made it up... "
if i remember right, a few months ago, NOIS actually used it in the comments...guess poindexter has been reading thru the archives...
I farted.
my hero zero,sir,I think the phrasing of my request made it quite clear I was aware of the independent actions of your fingers and rectum.It was the location of your head during those activities that strained credulity.
lgf,et al,sirs,I would have never imagined so much bandwidth could have been devoted to a fairly pedestrian 'head-up-ass' insult,the many variations of which have been in the public domain since most of our kind have stopped using our knuckles for support during ambulation(with obvious exceptions like al sharpton's banana hammock).Someone whips out a shiny object and you brobots just go apeshit.
"Someone whips out a shiny object and you brobots just go apeshit"
looks like you're the one still on the topic ;)
"I farted. "
no, you shit.
go change your diaper.
This whole Michael Vick ordeal seems to be blown just a tad out of proportion. First off, training dogs to fight and then killing those who underperform is a terrible thing. But...they are still dogs. Leonard Little killed a person while driving drunk about 9 or 10 years ago. How many games did he miss? Maybe 4 or so. And he spent all of 90 days in jail. This just seems like a rediculous standard. Little's killing was unintentional while Vick's was surely premeditated, but killing a person, even if it results from accidental, reckless behavior should be punished far harsher than the torture and mutilation of beasts.
Vick was railroaded. His punishment from the NFL will be unfounded. His legal punishment will be unfair.
Nevertheless, he fucked up. No matter what you're opinion is on dogs, Vick made a mistake. Saying that Vick's fuckup is society's fault is like a white man blaming his racism on the colonial laws that kept black men from citizenry and forbade them from marrying white people (and vice versa).
I am happy to see that, though NOIS has still not written of Vick's culpability, at least they have found a more local foe to blame it on: the friends who sold him out and the other name on the lease.
In a few years, maybe NOIS will actually think Vick's guilty like he says he is.
"In a few years, maybe NOIS will actually think Vick's guilty like he says he is. "
Sir....dear Nathan. Your stubborn intellect is being misguided by your poor reading comprehension.
We have stated in our last few posts regarding Mr. Vick...fully believe/think that Mr. Vick IS "guilty like he says he is".
How and why would we argue that?
We request, now that we have done our part. That you do yours.
Go to the plea and re-read what he says he is guilty of...
Thank you in advance, young Nathan. Your exhuberance and youthful ignorance are cute.
Sir,
Though I applaud the manner in which you have tackled the Vick issue, I find your focus on Goodell and his leadership to be lacking. Is Goodell trying to "clean up" the NFL, or is Goodell trying to eliminate general blackness? I am loathe to label the new commish as a bigot, but his behavior has definite racial overtones. I look forward to a NOIS deconstruction of Roger Goodell's actions as commissioner. He may very well be objective...But I'm inclined to believe he is a vindictive cracker.
I for one will not stand idly by while we so casually dismiss the institution of friendship. If one was to be judged by our friends than the entire United States population would be guilty of a multitude of heinous crimes. Indeed our hard earned tax dollars have funded right wing paramillitary groups whose tactics would shock even the most hardened canine enthusiasts. Indeed, if one is simply guilty for providing the means then shouldn't gun manufacturer's be guilty for all gun-related deaths? Culpability is not like butter, it can be spread, even when public emotions are so heated.
"I look forward to a NOIS deconstruction of Roger Goodell's actions as commissioner. He may very well be objective...But I'm inclined to believe he is a vindictive cracker."
Sir, we direct you to our archives. Much has been addressed about the "conduct" policy, as well as the institutionalized policy to rid the NFL of Negro QB's.
"Indeed our hard earned tax dollars have funded right wing paramillitary groups whose tactics would shock even the most hardened canine enthusiasts. Indeed, if one is simply guilty for providing the means then shouldn't gun manufacturer's be guilty for all gun-related deaths"
Good Inspector, thank you for your sane and balanced commentary.
One hopes that some of those minds that have so vigorously convinced themselves of Mr. Vick's 'guilt' will reconsider their interpretation of the 'plea'.
If Goodell is indeed able to eliminate general blackness, could you send him to the DC/Baltimore metro area? We have quite the project for him.
I linked to NOI Sportsblog from Proviso Probe.
" could you send him to the DC/Baltimore metro area"
i just checked with goodell. he said you are on your own (wait for it....wait for it)...
dc/balto 'spooks' him out.
HA
HA HA
HA HA HA
Honestly, the methods of execution described: Hanging, drowning and electrocuting, are so elaborate, and so expose the executor to harm from a violent animal, that I have a real, lingering doubt whether that allegation is true. These are animals supposedly bred so mean and so violent they can't even mate with one another. And these are supposedly base criminals who live in a remote area and possess firearms. Wouldn't they just shoot the dog? I have to wonder where that allegation came from, and the fact Vick is "collectively" responsible for these go-around-your-ass-to-get-to-your-elbow means of execution makes it all the more weird for me.
NOIS
Stop parsing. It cheapens your arguments.
Read the summary. "Members of the conspiracy...otherwise disposing of dogs not selected to stay with the ongoing animal fighting venture."
It goes on to say "...all of those dogs were killed by various methods, including hanging and drowning. VICK agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts of PEACE, PHILLIPS, and VICK.
The government is stating could prove the above facts beyond a reasonable doubt. Finding some vindication by saying that Vick may not have actually touched a dog is immaterial. The crime has been committed. the deed is done.
"The crime has been committed. the deed is done. "
Sir, you've nicely filled in the blanks.
But said nothing new.
The words "collective effort" are still in there and it doesn't admit to hands on involvement.
No matter how badly you will it to be so, Vick and his lawyers avoided that.
Sorry.
You may accuse me of "parsing", but I accuse you of not reading what is actually written and supposing what the legal jargon 'might' mean.
If you are going to accuse me of parsing and suggest that I take all that is said at face value.
YOu do the same.
No admission to hands on killing is present.
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