We took some email and comment heat for posting about Gary Sheffield's comments on his thoughts as to why there aren't more Negroes in MLB.
And, obviously, Sheffield has taken some heat.
Well, seems now Shef is getting some support for speaking his mind about his experience in baseball.
Tigers shortstop Carlos Guillen said Tuesday that he agrees with teammate Gary Sheffield's recently published assertions on black and Latin players. "I'm happy he said it," Guillen said. "I'm glad somebody spoke up."
Sheffield also further clarified his remarks about "controlling" Latin players.
"Every Latin player, you can't control 'em," Sheffield said. "I'm just saying from a whole grand scheme of things. They have more to lose than we do. You can send them back across the island. You can't send us back. We're already here."
Guillen agreed completely with what Shef had to say.
"I left my country to come here and to make money and play baseball," Guillen said. "I left my school because I wanted to play baseball here. In my first year, in rookie league, I hurt my elbow and I played DH," he said. "In my first at-bat, I hit a double, and I missed first base. I was out, and they screamed at me." (He declined to say who did the screaming but hinted it was his coaches.) I didn't know what to say. If I had said anything, they would have sent me home. I was afraid to talk. That happens to every Latin player. They are afraid to talk."
Unfortunately, the mainstream media chose to report Shef a bit out of context and without clarification. Seemingly in an attempt to stir things up and paint Shef as a racist.
Despite the controversy, we commend Shef on having the courage to speak up on behalf of Latin players. Proving that Shef is about helping ALL his fellow players improve their quality of life.
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56 comments:
There were also quotes from Ozzie Guillen and Eddie Perez talking about how Sheffs comments hurt latino players. Guillen is obviously backing his teammate for the sake of team unity. The more likely scenario is the one that Guillen brought up and that is American players are given big contracts right out of high school or college...maybe after they get the money they are just not as hungry as the Latino players. Either way there is no direct correlation between the diminishing number of black players and the rise of latinos.
"Guillen is obviously backing his teammate for the sake of team unity"
Sir, yes obviously.
I mean, siting HIS experiences as examples of the truisms in Shef's statements means nothing, right?
Look, you aren't Carlos Guillen. So let's not pretend you have any ability to read his mind. (Particularly since other Latino teamates said "no comment" on this issue.)
Read his statement.
Additionally, don't you think it may be possible, since Ozzie and Eddie made their statements PRIOR to Shef clarify what he meant by "control" and prior to Carlos explaining examples...that they based their reaction STRICTLY on the out of context and unclarified quotes the media provided of Shef's GQ interview?
And there is a DIRECT correlation between the diminishing number of Negro players and rising number of Latinos.
The fact that there is a specific number of roster spots. And the fact that, as YOU point out, the number of Negroes is going down and Latinos is going up IS a correlation.
Stop being wrong!!!!
"Stop being wrong!!!!"
if he did that
he wouldn't have anything left to post
Additionally, don't you think it may be possible, since Ozzie and Eddie made their statements PRIOR to Shef clarify what he meant by "control" and prior to Carlos explaining examples...that they based their reaction STRICTLY on the out of context and unclarified quotes the media provided of Shef's GQ interview?
funny how you have the ability to read ozzie and eddies mind but i cant read carlos guillens mind...you are a wizard.
"Guillen is obviously backing his teammate for the sake of team unity. "
why can't he just be saying how he feels????
you are the most clueless soul ever.
when you AGREE with a quote, you say the player is in a position to give his insight as a player.
when you DISAGREE, you say it is always a different motive than what is said.
dude, you don't know ONE big league player. you never played a minute. so stop pretending you know what motivates carlos guillen to say the things he does.
every thing you say is completely racist and always out of context.
face it. you don't understand a THING you read.
you are a stupid piece of white trash that has a lower reading comprehension level than the average black high school drop out.
you use NO logic in your statements. they are based on nothing but emotion.
you lend no unique insight to anything here. you always seep the same hateful bile of an opinion.
and on top of that, unlike NOIS, you offer no SOLUTIONS.
you are what is called a bitch. all you do is whine about the same thing over and over and over again.
go back to school. learn to comprehend what you read.
then come back. explain what you learned. admit that, up until you took classes on reading comprehension you just speaking out of your racist, emotional ass. and beg for righteous forgiveness.
you bring NOTHING to the table. every single one of your arguments and invalid points is the same.
save yourself the effort of typing out a new comment on each of NOIS's posts and just cut and paste your previous one.
you are an outdated thinker. nothing you say is relevent, thought provoking. or correct.
i'd rather hear the opinions of a a monkey than you.
the monkey has probably read more literature.
"funny how you have the ability to read ozzie and eddies mind but i cant read carlos guillens mind...you are a wizard. "
Sir, see. There is a difference in how it is presented.
Anytime we present something that is not necessarily fact, we QUALIFY it. We use terms like "speculation" and "wonder if"...or as in the case you site, we use the term "may be".
See, you don't do that.
You make statements of your opinion as if they are FACT.
Then, you get mad when NO ONE accepts them.
Qualify.
That is the word of today.
We'll work with you on it.
"Despite the controversy, we commend Shef on having the courage to speak up on behalf of Latin players. "
Muchas gracias, Senor Jefe!
And there is a DIRECT correlation between the diminishing number of Negro players and rising number of Latinos.
The fact that there is a specific number of roster spots. And the fact that, as YOU point out, the number of Negroes is going down and Latinos is going up IS a correlation.
But the number of white players is diminishing as well...his theory is that latino players are only replacing african americans. He said their faces are black but aint no english coming out of there mouth.
All Sheff did was backtrack from his orginal statement because he was getting heat about it. Now you are trying to paint sheffield as some kind of voice of the latino players..his quotes were clear and racist. It trivializes the high level of play by latino players.
"sheffield as some kind of voice of the latino players"
Sir, we urge you to read the post.
Please.
We didn't paint Shef as a voice of Latino players, we only reported and commented on what Carlos Guillen said.
And he said he is happy that Shef said what he did and glad that someone SPOKE UP.
So, the reality is....a Latin player was the one that painted Shef as a voice of Latin players.
We just pointed it out.
You have this personal vendetta against Shef. And so far, all he has done is offer to help a troubled Negro player and spoken out about the problems of Latino players breaking into the league.
We are starting to think that it upsets you that Shef is helping Negroes and has stood as a voice for Latinos.
The man has an interest in minority issues and rights.
Don't hate him for it. That would be racist.
You should put down your white sheet and raise a white dove of peace and unity.
If you can't get behind Shef's initiatives to create a nurturing environment for troubled players and to help raise awareness of the risks Latino players are subjected to to make the big leagues...well, don't even know what to say to that.
It's just terrible.
every thing you say is completely racist and always out of context.
You are a fool. Explain to me what I said in this post that is racist. Sheffield's comments were the ones that were racist. HE said latinos were easier to CONTROL. That totally diminishes their achievements on the field. His implication was that there was some grand scheme to rid MLB of black players and replace them with latinos...that is just ridiculous...as the number of latino and asian players rise, the number of both white and black american players goes down. If sheff truly knew what the issue was he would have called for MLB to finally institute an international draft so players from all over the world would be on the same financial platform.
If you can't get behind Shef's initiatives to create a nurturing environment for troubled players and to help raise awareness of the risks Latino players are subjected to to make the big leagues...well, don't even know what to say to that.
If you think that was his intent then more power to you. I dont think his intent was in any way to help latino players but instead to paint some kind of conspiracy theory as to why the number of african americans is dwindling in MLB.
"HE said latinos were easier to CONTROL."
And then he explained what he meant by that.
And there is NOTHING racist by explaining that they are easier to "control" because they have more to lose.
Your comments are racist because, since Shef is black, you REFUSE to accept them. You try put words in his mouth that never came out. And you try to interpret his statements in such a way as to make this thing into Shef saying the only reason that Latinos are in the big leagues is because they are easy to control and don't have the ability to be there.
That isn't what he said, implied or insinuated.
You say he was backtracking.
I say he was forced to EXPLAIN his comments because racists like you tried to spin them a certain way when they first came out (and were out of context, i might add).
So, don't say the guy was backtracking when racist idiots like YOU are the ones that NEEDED further clarification and didn't understand what he meant the first time...like the REST of us did.
"I dont think his intent was in any way to help latino players but instead to paint some kind of conspiracy theory as to why the number of african americans is dwindling in MLB."
Sir, let's take stock of the situation at hand:
i. you are an avowed an unabashed racist who is against what Shef is doing, hates giving Negroes the opportunity to better themselves and has taken every opportunity to faliciously attack Negroes in sports who don't present the image YOU deem as as required.
ii. Carlos Guillen is a Latin ballplayer who thanked Shef for having the courage to say what he said and sited his very own experiences as being exactly the type of thing Shef talked about.
We'll go with Guillen's take on this one.
Thanks, tho. Your input is always valued as the litmus test to ensure we are right.
Jay Marriotti is still a fag.
If you think that was his intent then more power to you. I dont think his intent was in any way to help latino players but instead to paint some kind of conspiracy theory as to why the number of african americans is dwindling in MLB.
This might be the best we've heard from you in a long time.
Your entitled to your opinion. Thank you for expressing it as such.
I think what Shef was referring to is something we call "institutional racism." Decision-makers do not want to deal with Negro players. If they can find the talent elsewhere, they will.
Because of the intensity with which Latino players attach themselves to the game, be it caused by financial need, cultural love, or immigration concerns, they may be less willing to do anything to jeopardize their status. So they act nicer, maybe kiss a little more ass, are less willing to tell somebody to fuck off. This makes them seem like a much nicer guy.
That, coupled with the fact of the negative image of the Negro athlete in the American eye, will lead to more Latino players and fewer Negro players getting hired.
No conspiracy necessary.
"That, coupled with the fact of the negative image of the Negro athlete in the American eye"
well, the negative image is only reinforced by people that refuse to even try to see positives.
"well, the negative image is only reinforced by people that refuse to even try to see positives."
logically, you're argument would appear infallible
ii. Carlos Guillen is a Latin ballplayer who thanked Shef for having the courage to say what he said and sited his very own experiences as being exactly the type of thing Shef talked about.
But you dismiss the comments of two other latinos in MLB because they dont back up your agenda...well done spinster
"logically"
hahaha...sorry, that made me laugh.
the anonymous commentor.
logic.
hahaha.
stop.
"But you dismiss the comments of two other latinos in MLB because they dont back up your agenda...well done spinster"
Sir, you are a special person.
From now on, whenever you are making a point, we'd like you to support it with quotes that contradict it. Ok?
Thanks.
"From now on, whenever you are making a point, we'd like you to support it with quotes that contradict it. Ok?"
Holy sh&t.
You just gave it away.
But, doubt he'll get it.
"But you dismiss the comments of two other latinos "
didn't he already say that those quotes were made based on the quotes the media provided from the GQ interview that were out of context, and not based on Shef's clarification?
Apples and oranges.
I think what Shef was referring to is something we call "institutional racism." Decision-makers do not want to deal with Negro players. If they can find the talent elsewhere, they will.
Because of the intensity with which Latino players attach themselves to the game, be it caused by financial need, cultural love, or immigration concerns, they may be less willing to do anything to jeopardize their status. So they act nicer, maybe kiss a little more ass, are less willing to tell somebody to fuck off. This makes them seem like a much nicer guy.
If the number of white players stayed the same while there was an equal shift in the number of blacks and latinos then your point would be fine...but that isnt the case. This isnt about negro ballplayers....MLB has no international draft..they can sign latinos as early as 16 years old. There usually is no competiton from other sports (because of the latin cultural love of baseball) or colleges. You want to paint this as an anti-negro story but it isnt the case. And in my OPINION Sheff was bringing this up as a way to make an argument that there is anti-negro sentiment in MLB not as a way to try to point out injustices being done to latinos.
"in my OPINION "
see, that's the problem.
you've proven time and time again on here.
yours is worthless.
and racist.
"If the number of white players stayed the same while there was an equal shift in the number of blacks and latinos then your point would be fine...but that isnt the case."
i've read that the number of white players HAS stayed close to the same.
where did you get your stats?
"where did you get your stats? "
what stats?
i've never seen him ONCE provide numbers or references.
Just opinionated generalities based on his "observations".
qualified? said...
scoop the II returns.
see, that's the problem.
you've proven time and time again on here.
yours is worthless.
and racist.
Anyone who doesnt agree with all your conspiracy theories is labeled racist...grow up man.
now, i have million dollar wet backs.
weeeee
"Anyone who doesnt agree with all your conspiracy theories is labeled racist...grow up man. "
yes. great.
stats?
Shef's point that latinos "have more to lose" is likely the most significant point in the black-white-latino dynamic in baseball. There should be no debate on its accuracy; for a latino, losing his position on the team means losing the only chance he'll ever get, and with it his earning power and his visa. There is little likelihood that he'd risk it by mouthing off or acting out. Their tendency to keep their nose to the grindstone makes them more attractive to employers.
The one potentially "racist" aspect of his original comments is that they were presented as a sweeping generalization. His qualifications, however, remove that aspect, and can now explain characters like Carlos Zambrano, Manny Ramirez, etc. Not coincedentally, these are players whose talent makes them indespensible.
There is one effect of Shef's insight that has not been mentioned yet, however. This is the latino's tendency to work harder than everyone else because of his having "more to lose position." Not that blacks or whites don't work hard, but that latinos are going to work like Rudy. This is another aspect of latinos that endears them to the baseball machine.
"If the number of white players stayed the same while there was an equal shift in the number of blacks and latinos then your point would be fine...but that isnt the case."
I believe I already implied that the decision-makers are looking for talent. If you can't connect the dots, let me help you.
Negro players were formerly underrepresented in MLB due to institutional racism. That means there were fewer than their would have been if talent was the only consideration.
The massive influx of Latin players enabled MLB clubs to increase the talent level of their teams without increasing the number of Negro players. This would also lead to a decrease in the number of white players as the Latin players fill the gap between the previous desired talent level and the concurrent unwillingness to hire Negro players.
i.e. the white guys who were replaced by Latinos would have been replaced by Negroes if mainstream America, and MLB as a subset of mainstream America, didn't hate Negroes
now, this is just a theory, and my OPINION, but it is supported by American history and logic
as opposed to your idea that the number of white baseball players should be held in stasis as some sort of control over MLBs international experiment.
"Not that blacks or whites don't work hard, but that latinos are going to work like Rudy. "
who are you and what have you done with "our" anonymous!?!?!
"as opposed to your idea that the number of white baseball players should be held in stasis as some sort of control over MLBs international experiment"
DOH!!!!!
DOH!!!!!
the fun part is, i can type this stuff faster than he can read it
still trying said...
Sir, is that YOU, bruh?
yes, whata Meestah Gally Sheffierd do is vedy impohtant.
it is time foh to asking supeh wondelfur question of when he to speak up ona behalve of the prayahs that come flom Nipon, yes?
"But you dismiss the comments of two other latinos in MLB because they dont back up your agenda...well done spinster"
umm...let's see here. NOIS points out a Latin player that thanks Sheffield. You say that NOIS is obligated to included quotes of Latin players that don't.
I read a few of your posts that you attack Sharpton and Jackson and said they were supported by the black community.
You didn't include the quotes of the millions of black people that don't support them.
What gives?
Shef's been misunderstood from day one.
He has always done all he can to put himself in position to be the most effective player he could be.
Enough said.
'Sir, is that YOU, bruh?'
Sir, you recognize me by now
but if anonymous can tell when I'm here, I guess I've thrown subtlety completely out the window
"He has always done all he can to put himself in position to be the most richest player he could be."
FIXED
Negro players were formerly underrepresented in MLB due to institutional racism. That means there were fewer than their would have been if talent was the only consideration
This is your opinion and not backed by any facts.
Shef's been misunderstood from day one.
He has always done all he can to put himself in position to be the most effective player he could be.
Enough said.
LOL..this is the guy who ADMITTED to making errors on purpose if he didnt like a previous call from an official scorer...and I dont know Sheffield but dont you have to wonder about a guy with such talent who cant stick with a team for more than a few years.
"This is your opinion and not backed by any facts. "
yea man!
it's just OPINION that MLB was segregated for YEARS.
LOL....you are MORON!
"This is your opinion and not backed by any facts."
is it only my opinion that Jackie Robinson existed?
The massive influx of Latin players enabled MLB clubs to increase the talent level of their teams without increasing the number of Negro players. This would also lead to a decrease in the number of white players as the Latin players fill the gap between the previous desired talent level and the concurrent unwillingness to hire Negro players.
Your point would hold some merit if this influx of latin players wasnt a relatively new phenomenon from over the last 25 years or so.
"Your point would hold some merit if this influx of latin players wasnt a relatively new phenomenon from over the last 25 years or so."
Yea, cause you know, 25 years ago, there was a level playing field in MLB. The racist history of the league had LONG been wiped out at that point in time.
HAHAHAHAHA!
"The racist history of the league had LONG been wiped out at that point in time."
what racist history?
Negro players used to have their very own baseball league
what opportunity! America!
Yea, cause you know, 25 years ago, there was a level playing field in MLB. The racist history of the league had LONG been wiped out at that point in time.
HAHAHAHAHA!
Man you dont get a thing do you....so dense.
If a society truly values honesty, then it should allow people to speak from their reality. If your reality differs from my reality, let's talk about why that is and see if there's a level of understanding that can be bridged or if we should agree to disagree.
If your reality causes me to be indignant and take offense, instead of calling you ignorant and marginalizing the issue, maybe I should ask myself, why is that? Is there any truth there?
Did anybody else find it ridiculous that when baseball was honoring Jackie Robinson a few weeks ago, they'd interview players, but most of the announcers and most of the reporters pontificating on and on about it were white? If integration is such a wonderful thing and truly an indicator of progress and you're willing to talk about what a great thing it is, what, then, about your profession?
Fast forward to Sheffield's comments. Do I personally agree with them? Not all of them, but I understand what he's trying to say. I also understand that when you're giving an interview about something controversial, you don't have the opportunity to parse language over the course of several hours like writers do.
You can honor Jackie Robinson, you can honor the Black Aces, but baseball is dying in the African-American community. Why is that? But the discussion never came to that.
Instead the overwhelmingly white media jumped on the bandwagon, patting itself on the back for sharing a collective moral outrage about something they can never truly understand.
This is why a national discussion of race can never take place. And before you go defending the media, if you've ever done any research on the media around the time that Jackie Robinson entered the major leagues, if you think that the prominent columnists of the day were completely in favor of integrating baseball, you'd be lying to yourself. They followed the bandwagon back then, as much as they do now.
Thank you for your time. You can go back to Googling pictures of Andrew Speaker's wife.
"...Thank you for your time."
No, Sir, thank you for yours.
"You can go back to Googling pictures of Andrew Speaker's wife."
No thank you, Sir.
""You can go back to Googling pictures of Andrew Speaker's wife.""
mmm yummy. the TB biatch.
mmm yummy. the TB biatch.
can't tell what th'bitch look like with that carpet over her face, man
"can't tell what th'bitch look like with that carpet over her face, man "
i'd like to see her face burried in a different type of carpet...
Thanks for this piece, Nation.
MSM is trying to start some shit betwn Blacks and Latinos. TWM seems to have a vested interest in using Latino labor for their ends, with the carrot being the promise of "the American dream" through immigration.
Nothing wrong with coming here and doing what you do, playing the game you are gifted to play, playing the game you love. However, while the Latino resistance is admirable and strong and they continue to face discrimination, they DO NOT HAVE THE HISTORICAL baggage in America that came with forced removal, Middle Passage, Slavery, Jim Crow, Civil Rights of Blacks in America.
This baggage is what MSM and TWM/W don't want to deal with, therefore, they seem more comfortable dealing with talent who don't have the historical baggage, who don't speak the "official" language; therefore, Black talent is being squeezed out.
Props to Mr. Guillen for quickly coming in to diffuse this okey doke "divide and conquer" strategy. It's the same tactics they're trying to use in LA County. It's not right and it's not okay.
Dee
And before this turns into a pointless "who had it worse" debate, that's not what I'm implying when I said that Latinos "do not have the historical" baggage that Blacks do.
I'm saying that b/c they don't have the centuries of historical baggage IN AMERICA coupled with the ugly history of Blacks in early sports, that is precisely why I think they are more heavily recruited. No one wants to talk about it this stuff - except for Gary Sheffield.
Dee
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